Isotropix Forums

Particle Paint has many bugs (still in 3.5RC3)

You think you may have found a bug? Please post it here.

Particle Paint has many bugs (still in 3.5RC3)

Unread postby atnreg » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:07 pm

Hi!

Particle Paint is amazing feature but sadly it is so crashy that it makes using it almost impossible. In addition to that there are some other smaller problems. And as they all are closely related to Particle Paint, I'll list them all here :)

Or should I post each in separate post? As these all are in same feature I thought that would not be necessary but please let me know if you want that anyway.

1. Particle Paint tool does not remember settings
This is very annoying, all Tool Options reset to defaults even when loading project that has used it.

2. First stroke does not scatter
When I do the very first stroke on a Container, only the particles are added, not the objects that Scatterer should show. On next stroke the Scatterer works correctly and also shows the objects from first stroke.

3. CTRL-Z crashes almost every time
I have reported this earlier but as it still exists and behaves a bit strangely and differently, I decided to list it here as well.
When I use menu Edit/Undo, it seems not to crash but almost every time I use CTRL-Z, it crashes.
I made toolbar button script that does the same as Edit/Undo (undo.py) and it seems to work so this is quite strange bug as it only SEEMS to relate to keyboard Undo.

4. Crashes
If I only use VERY simple objects like boxes, there seem to be no problems (except with CTRL-Z).
But if I use for example scattered sphere that is using displacement, the crash happens sooner or later on paint or erase. The more complex the objects, the more likely it is to crash. This is strange as usually Clarisse can handle amazingly gigantic amounts of objects and polygons.
Also Eraser seem to be more sensitive than paint, Erasing crashes very easily.
First I thought it was related using World Brush Unit but it happened even with Screen. and of course it should not crash on any ;)

5. Project corrupt after crash
This does not happen every time but two times it has happened that when Clarisse has crashed on undo or other Particle Paint act, the autosaved project is corrupt and crashes either immediately on load or then as soon as I try to do anything on Particle Paint-related objects. This makes Particle Painting even more risky to use as normally Clarisse handles crashes (that still happens occasionally but not often outside Particle Painting) very well with autosave.

6. This may not be a bug but I need solution anyway :)
When I erase particles, the existing scattered objects re-scatter according to Scatterer settings (rot/scale etc.). How to prevent that?

These problems are not related to my system as I've noticed that same behaviour happens so far on three totally different computers (just in case you need, see my signature for my system specs).

Please see this video for demonstration (note that just before the crash in the end I press CTRL-Z).
http://anuoreva.com/files/clarisse3.5rc3-particlepaint-crash.mp4

Please fix these soon, I really need Particle Painting but now it is mostly annoying and I have to save after each stroke to be safe.

Thank you!

Antti
Intel i7(6-core),32GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX690 (2GPU)+GTX Titan Black,Win10Pro 64bit
Clarisse 3.5SP2,Blender,ZBrush,Onyx,(3D-Coat,Lightwave+Octane...)
Clarisse since 2016-09-29 (Py 2017-01-04), Python since 2016-11-10
I do all 3D stuff for fun, no business
atnreg
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:20 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Particle Paint has many bugs (still in 3.5RC3)

Unread postby arnaud » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:01 am

Hello Antti,

Thanks for your feedback.
I've pushed your issues to our QA department.

Cheers.
Arnaud

Isotropix
Chief Process & Innovation Officer
User avatar
arnaud
 
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: Particle Paint has many bugs (still in 3.5RC3)

Unread postby atnreg » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:04 am

Thank you :)

It seems that now as I have toolbar button to do Undo, it crashes less (not on Undo anymore at all) but still crashes on random situations, usually related to either Erasing or using a bit heavier geometry for Scattering. Without Scatterer I have not managed to get it to crash.
But in total, Particle Paint is amazing tool and VERY flexible, I managed even to paint materials with it, cool :mrgreen:

Antti
Intel i7(6-core),32GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX690 (2GPU)+GTX Titan Black,Win10Pro 64bit
Clarisse 3.5SP2,Blender,ZBrush,Onyx,(3D-Coat,Lightwave+Octane...)
Clarisse since 2016-09-29 (Py 2017-01-04), Python since 2016-11-10
I do all 3D stuff for fun, no business
atnreg
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:20 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Particle Paint has many bugs (still in 3.5RC3)

Unread postby mdevaux » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:10 pm

Hi Antti !

First of all, thanks for the time you spent explaining how to reproduce the Particle paint bugs, especially your video that gave us a valuable hint to find where the actual problems are.

Issue #2 has been logged in our bug tracker as #7216. We are currently investigating it, the target will be 3.5 SP1.
BTW, I think you were right, this lack of evaluation happens mostly when tool uses World space units.
Could you please confirm that when you set a geometry group in the tool (the polygrid of your video for ex.), the scatterer instances pop up even on first stroke?

Issue #3 has been logged as #7217. Target 3.5 SP1 as well.
The guilty one is the Progress View. Closing the Progress View workarounds the crash, right ?
The big difference you noticed is that when you use the CtrlZ shortcut, the mouse stays above the 3D view, when you use the menu or a custom button, you move the mouse outside. And the 3D View does special things on each mouse move for Paint tools, and it interferes with undo and/or the Progress View

I hope issue #4 is also related to the same problem. Our QA team has not reproduced it yet.

About your request #1:
As of today, tools don't save their setup in the project, and there is no special case for paint tools. It's a design decision.
But you obviously noticed that brush and eraser settings can be saved separately ? Maybe a little script could load the desired brushes in the tool on startup ?

About #6: Yes you are right, it's currently a limitation. We'll log it as a feature request.
--
Marianne.
User avatar
mdevaux
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:05 pm

Re: Particle Paint has many bugs (still in 3.5RC3)

Unread postby atnreg » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:17 pm

Hi!

First of all, thank you very much for fast, thorough and clear reply :)

First of all, thanks for the time you spent explaining how to reproduce the Particle paint bugs, especially your video that gave us a valuable hint to find where the actual problems are.


No problem, I'm glad that it cleared the issue even though the keystrokes were on visible on video :)

Issue #2 has been logged in our bug tracker as #7216. We are currently investigating it, the target will be 3.5 SP1.

SP1? So not in final 3.5 yet? I thought this would be easy to fix but of course this is not that urgent as the other issues :)

BTW, I think you were right, this lack of evaluation happens mostly when tool uses World space units.

Oh, ok, that may be, I always use World so I haven't noticed it after the very beginning when I notified it may be related :)

Could you please confirm that when you set a geometry group in the tool (the polygrid of your video for ex.), the scatterer instances pop up even on first stroke?

Yes! That is correct, using geometry group makes it work fine :)

Issue #3 has been logged as #7217. Target 3.5 SP1 as well.

ok but I hope you mean SP1 is the final version and not one after that? I hope there will be more RCs instead of longer wait for the final so that once some problems are fixed, a new RC would be released. That way we could enjoy the fixes sooner :)

The guilty one is the Progress View. Closing the Progress View workarounds the crash, right ?

YES! Exactly! And it's enough that the Progress View just is not active, it can be on a tab as long as that tab is not active. This is nice workaround while waiting for the actual fix :)

The big difference you noticed is that when you use the CtrlZ shortcut, the mouse stays above the 3D view, when you use the menu or a custom button, you move the mouse outside. And the 3D View does special things on each mouse move for Paint tools, and it interferes with undo and/or the Progress View

That makes sense and actually if I just move the mouse outside of 3D View and then use CTRL-Z, it does not crash either :)

I hope issue #4 is also related to the same problem. Our QA team has not reproduced it yet.

Based on what you wrote, it well may be, let's hope so. I will (try to remember to) keep the Progress View off when using Particle Paint, it might prevent the occasional crashes as well. And Issue 4 is difficult anyway as it only happens occasionally so there is no procedure to make it happen for sure. I will update here if I'll find something new about these or if keeping Progress View off prevents those other crashes as well.

About your request #1:
As of today, tools don't save their setup in the project, and there is no special case for paint tools. It's a design decision.
But you obviously noticed that brush and eraser settings can be saved separately ?

Actually no I didn't :oops: That of course would help but when I tried it, I got this message in the log:
Failed to save brush file 'C:/Program Files/Isotropix/Clarisse iFX 3.5 RC3/Clarisse/brush_presets.cfg'.
That may not be Clarisse's fault, for some reason that folder did not have rights to write even though my account is in Administrators group in Win10 Pro. Of course if the installer does not give enough rights, then that would explain it :)
Anyway, now it works, I gave full control rights to that folder.

Maybe a little script could load the desired brushes in the tool on startup ?

That would be great yes, could you please give a sample script for that? I have tried to find any tool related Python commands but so far no luck :)
Or should I ask this in Scripting area? But anyway there should be way to make one of the saved brushes and erasers as default.

About #6: Yes you are right, it's currently a limitation. We'll log it as a feature request.

This is actually quite urgent because the Eraser is needed for fine tuning the particles to say clean up some trees outside of objects but if the scattering is redone every time, it can rotate the trees again so that they are on the way again :)
Hmm...or should I bake the Scatterer first, then the Scatterer does not affect it, right? I'm still learning this whole Particle Painting, sorry for silly notes :)

Marianne.


Thank you VERY much for your reply, you gave workarounds for all problems and gave me the 'new' feature of saving brushes (I of course had noticed the buttons but somehow did realize they would, well, save the brushes...or something :D)

Have a nice day!

Antti
Last edited by atnreg on Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Intel i7(6-core),32GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX690 (2GPU)+GTX Titan Black,Win10Pro 64bit
Clarisse 3.5SP2,Blender,ZBrush,Onyx,(3D-Coat,Lightwave+Octane...)
Clarisse since 2016-09-29 (Py 2017-01-04), Python since 2016-11-10
I do all 3D stuff for fun, no business
atnreg
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:20 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Particle Paint has many bugs (still in 3.5RC3)

Unread postby sam » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:25 pm

Hi Antti

By principle #6 can't work the way you want. If you change the point count of a point cloud used as input of the scatterer then the distribution changes period. The only way to fix this is to use ID based instance distribution. Look at what happens with the Scatterer Bake script in the Scattering Tab.

Best,
Sam Assadian
Isotropix
CEO/Founder
User avatar
sam
 
Posts: 995
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:33 am

Re: Particle Paint has many bugs (still in 3.5RC3)

Unread postby atnreg » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:30 pm

sam wrote:By principle #6 can't work the way you want. If you change the point count of a point cloud used as input of the scatterer then the distribution changes period. The only way to fix this is to use ID based instance distribution. Look at what happens with the Scatterer Bake script in the Scattering Tab.
Best,


Ok that's what I thought, though incorrectly said 'bake the container' above but I fixed that in that message. And of course now that I thought of that more, it makes perfect sense as the Container is just kind of pointcloud and even though the points will not move, the Scatterer handles it as any pointcloud and so re-calculates the scatter :)

Antti
Intel i7(6-core),32GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX690 (2GPU)+GTX Titan Black,Win10Pro 64bit
Clarisse 3.5SP2,Blender,ZBrush,Onyx,(3D-Coat,Lightwave+Octane...)
Clarisse since 2016-09-29 (Py 2017-01-04), Python since 2016-11-10
I do all 3D stuff for fun, no business
atnreg
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:20 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland


Return to Bugs Archive