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Which is better for Clarisse: Core i9 or 2 x Xeon?

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Re: Which is better for Clarisse: Core i9 or 2 x Xeon?

Unread postby sam » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:20 pm

I dunno, we did a demo during our user group in LA last week on this machine that was provided by AMD. I never saw Clarisse running so quickly. It was a pretty incredible experience.

I don't know about the i9, never tried.
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Re: Which is better for Clarisse: Core i9 or 2 x Xeon?

Unread postby atnreg » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:28 pm

sam wrote:I dunno, we did a demo during our user group in LA last week on this machine that was provided by AMD. I never saw Clarisse running so quickly. It was a pretty incredible experience.

I don't know about the i9, never tried.


Oh ok, thanks! It depends on how long it takes until setups with 2990WX are available OR how long my current system works :)

Antti
Intel i7(6-core),32GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX 1080ti,Win10
Clarisse 3.6SP5,Houdini Indie,Fusion360,Blender,ZBrush,Onyx,SubstPnt,(LW2015...)
Clarisse since 2016-09-29 (Py 2017-01-04), Python since 2016-11-10
I do all 3D stuff for fun, no business
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Re: Which is better for Clarisse: Core i9 or 2 x Xeon?

Unread postby vandam » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 pm

Yeah, like Sam said, 2990WX has the best price to performance ration at the moment. There is no i9 that could match the performance of that CPU, when it comes to multithreading. Intel has announced new i9 lineup, but these are just the same CPUs with slight higher clocks, core count stays the same. They will release some crazy 28 core behemoth, I think it's called Xeon W-3175X, but the amount of power this thing needs, and the fact that it uses different socket than current i9s, is a no-go for me. It will, most likely, crush all the benchmarks, but the price of the entire platform will be at least 2x that of 2990WX.

Dunno where you live, but 2990WX has been available in Poland for some time now. That is if you have 2 thousand euro to spare :mrgreen:

If price is not that much of an issue for you I'd go for 2990WX. This CPU will hold up for a good few years.


About overclocking - you can get up to 30-40% extra performance. It is 100% stable and safe, you just gotta keep the CPU cool. And about coolers - nowdays, there are usually few screws that you take out and you can replace the CPU. Just look up some videos on youtube on how to assembly/disassembly TR4 based systems. Lots of content out there.

But you must also take other things into account. Like I said before - Intel CPUs are still better. 2990WX will give you awesome multithreaded performance, but will stay behind i9s in pretty much any other test. So if you want to game a bit after hours, encode some videos, do some other stuff - i9 will still give you awesome performance across any software you want to use. But if you're all about crunching them render times - go for AMD.
Last edited by vandam on Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:54 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Which is better for Clarisse: Core i9 or 2 x Xeon?

Unread postby meryon » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:11 pm

Yes, I plan to buy AMD Threadripper 2990x too.
Can't wait! :D
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Re: Which is better for Clarisse: Core i9 or 2 x Xeon?

Unread postby atnreg » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:11 am

vandam wrote:Yeah, like Sam said, 2990WX has the best price to performance ration at the moment. There is no i9 that could match the performance of that CPU, when it comes to multithreading. Intel has announced new i9 lineup, but these are just the same CPUs with slight higher clocks, core count stays the same. They will release some crazy 28 core behemoth, I think it's called Xeon W-3175X, but the amount of power this thing needs, and the fact that it uses different socket than current i9s, is a no-go for me. It will, most likely, crush all the benchmarks, but the price of the entire platform will be at least 2x that of 2990WX.


Yes and 2990WX has 32 cores i.e. 64 threads, wow :)

Dunno where you live, but 2990WX has been available in Poland for some time now. That is if you have 2 thousand euro to spare :mrgreen:
If price is not that much of an issue for you I'd go for 2990WX. This CPU will hold up for a good few years.

Oh I thought it is brand new and not yet released but yes the same store actually sells it here in Finland for 1899€ and it's on stock :)
I ignored the AMD setup so far but there is one with 1950X so I could order that with 2990WX and with GTX 1080ti instead of Quadro which results in only a bit higher price as those compensate each other about half of the double Xeon setup :mrgreen:

So the final setup would be:
Base price: 3899€
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X 3.4GHz -> AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX, TR4, 3.0GHz, 80MB, 32-core +1000€
64GB DDR4
512GB M.2 SSD + 4TB HDD
NVIDIA Quadro P4000 8GB -> Geforce GTX 1080ti, -200-400€
Win 10 Pro
Final price around 4500€ (the setup customization may cost some extra but anyway that is close)

About overclocking - you can get up to 30-40% extra performance. It is 100% stable and safe, you just gotta keep the CPU cool. And about coolers - nowdays, there are usually few screws that you take out and you can replace the CPU. Just look up some videos on youtube on how to assembly/disassembly TR4 based systems. Lots of content out there.

Oh no silicon paste anymore?

But you must also take other things into account. Like I said before - Intel CPUs are still better. 2990WX will give you awesome multithreaded performance, but will stay behind i9s in pretty much any other test. So if you want to game a bit after hours, encode some videos, do some other stuff - i9 will still give you awesome performance across any software you want to use. But if you're all about crunching them render times - go for AMD.


I don't play games, maybe some video editing but nothing huge and that computer is dedicated to 3D and related, other computer is for other stuff so main goal is to get Clarisse work as fast as possible :mrgreen:

Thank you very much for updating my knowledge about 2990WX, the tests I found in the internet always said 'upcoming' or 'when releasaed' etc. :mrgreen:
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Clarisse since 2016-09-29 (Py 2017-01-04), Python since 2016-11-10
I do all 3D stuff for fun, no business
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Re: Which is better for Clarisse: Core i9 or 2 x Xeon?

Unread postby atnreg » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:25 pm

Just to make sure I have really understood everything, can you please confirm this:

Is it fact (I mean seen in real life, not based on specs) that Clarisse runs faster with 2990WX than with dual Xeon? When price is ignored? :mrgreen:

Sam, you said you have never seen Clarisse run that fast but have you seen Clarisse on 2x Xeon E5-2680 v4? :mrgreen:
It is just hard to believe TWO Xeons would be slower than one 2990WX, that's why I want to be sure, sorry for partially repeated question :oops:
On the other hand, vandam said those Xeons are 10-15% faster than 1950X which is much slower than 2990WX so maybe I just need to believe this :mrgreen:

Also the customizer recommends RTX 2080ti instead of 1080ti, NVIDIA is developing the realtime render with RTX, should I go for that even though it is not yet used in Clarisse or others? :)

Thank you!

Antti
Intel i7(6-core),32GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX 1080ti,Win10
Clarisse 3.6SP5,Houdini Indie,Fusion360,Blender,ZBrush,Onyx,SubstPnt,(LW2015...)
Clarisse since 2016-09-29 (Py 2017-01-04), Python since 2016-11-10
I do all 3D stuff for fun, no business
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Re: Which is better for Clarisse: Core i9 or 2 x Xeon?

Unread postby vandam » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:23 pm

Is it fact (I mean seen in real life, not based on specs) that Clarisse runs faster with 2990WX than with dual Xeon? When price is ignored?

Well, the software itself will not run faster. It will only render faster. Significantly faster :mrgreen:


Xeons usually run at much lower clock speed than workstation CPUs. E5-2680v4 is a 14 core chip, but at full load it will clock to 2.7Ghz. In comparison, my 14 core i9 runs at 4.3GHz (slight OC, could go higher), has newer architecture, thus I get around 60-70% more performance than I would with this Xeon. Dual e5-2680v4 would give ~20% more horse power than this i9-7940x, but the price of these 2 is around thrice as much.

I have e5-2697v4 collecting dust at the moment, even though it's 18 core beast. I used to run e5-2680v3(12 core) for around 3 years. When I got it, I bought it used, suuuper cheap (around 300 euro), and even though I replaced it like half a year ago, it was still a good CPU, its performance was similar to Ryzen 2700x. But back when I got it, the best i7s had 8 cores, and they were super overpriced. If you wanted more performance you had to go with Xeons.

Like I said, if you can't get the Xeons super cheap, you do not need crazy amount of RAM - just forget about them. Few years ago they were still a thing, now that we have Threadrippers and i9s, they no longer present any good value (again, unless you can buy used for fraction of the price).

Also, single CPU systems are more reliable, there might be some performance and latency loss due to dual socket configuration. If you ever ran a dual CPU system you'd know what I'm talking about.
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Re: Which is better for Clarisse: Core i9 or 2 x Xeon?

Unread postby atnreg » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:25 pm

vandam wrote:Like I said, if you can't get the Xeons super cheap, you do not need crazy amount of RAM - just forget about them. Few years ago they were still a thing, now that we have Threadrippers and i9s, they no longer present any good value (again, unless you can buy used for fraction of the price).

Ok so if I could get Xeon system for price below the 2990WX (and I can't), even then it would perform worse. That nails it, I'll go with 2990WX :mrgreen:

Well, the software itself will not run faster. It will only render faster. Significantly faster :mrgreen:

But as the software uses CPU as well, surely it runs faster too, I mean 3D View, displacements etc. :mrgreen:

Also, single CPU systems are more reliable, there might be some performance and latency loss due to dual socket configuration. If you ever ran a dual CPU system you'd know what I'm talking about.

This was totally new to me, no I have never used dual CPU system :)

How about RTX 2080 ti vs. 1080 ti? Hopefully soon Clarisse will support the NVIDIA realtime render in 3D View or something like that (for limited scenes, not all) so with RTX 2080 ti I would be ready :mrgreen:
Isotropix, any comments on this? :D

Antti
Intel i7(6-core),32GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX 1080ti,Win10
Clarisse 3.6SP5,Houdini Indie,Fusion360,Blender,ZBrush,Onyx,SubstPnt,(LW2015...)
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I do all 3D stuff for fun, no business
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Re: Which is better for Clarisse: Core i9 or 2 x Xeon?

Unread postby vandam » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:07 pm

They are working on accelerating the viewport with GPU but I doubt they will add RT render any time soon. At the moment price of 2080ti does not justify all the features the card has. No software support it. But if you want to build future-proof workstation 2080ti would seem like a better choice.


Ok so if I could get Xeon system for price below the 2990WX (and I can't), even then it would perform worse. That nails it, I'll go with 2990WX


well, sometimes people sell stuff stupid cheap. I won't mention the fact that I got E5-2699v4 (22core beast) for 600 euro, some Tesla K80s for 100 euro each, or my latest find - e5-2697v4 for 10 (!) euro :mrgreen: :mrgreen:. There is a huge market for used hardware if you know where and what to look for.
If you take into account the price of motherboard, which for x99 (xeon v3 and v4) is half the price of x399 (threadrippers), and if you could get the xeons for even 2/3 of the TR price, you could still match the performance at lower cost. But if I were you I'd go with 2990WX :mrgreen: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Which is better for Clarisse: Core i9 or 2 x Xeon?

Unread postby atnreg » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:22 pm

vandam wrote:They are working on accelerating the viewport with GPU but I doubt they will add RT render any time soon. At the moment price of 2080ti does not justify all the features the card has. No software support it. But if you want to build future-proof workstation 2080ti would seem like a better choice.


Ok, I'll check the offer and depending on the price difference, will make the decision :)

well, sometimes people sell stuff stupid cheap. If you take into account the price of motherboard, which for x99 (xeon v3 and v4) is half the price of x399 (threadrippers), and if you could get the xeons for 2/3 :mrgreen: of the TR price, you could still match the performance at lower cost. But if I were you I'd go with 2990WX :mrgreen: :twisted: :twisted:


As none of those price wonders is likely to happen, I will go with 2990WX :mrgreen:

Thank you very much again!

Antti
Last edited by atnreg on Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Intel i7(6-core),32GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX 1080ti,Win10
Clarisse 3.6SP5,Houdini Indie,Fusion360,Blender,ZBrush,Onyx,SubstPnt,(LW2015...)
Clarisse since 2016-09-29 (Py 2017-01-04), Python since 2016-11-10
I do all 3D stuff for fun, no business
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