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Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

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Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby Asticles » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:29 pm

Hi all, as I've said on other thread, I'm trying to render an archviz scene without success.

Everything is working fine outside the house, but when I try to render something from inside, render times get insane.
Light comes from an ibl light created by the Ibl button.

Have tried to:
Put an area light on the openings, but I'm getting an irreal transition between interior and exterior.
Followed tutorial instructions about denoising, and when I raise indirect diffuse samples, to get a barely noisefree AOV, rendertimes another time got insane.
Set clamp to the minimum acceptable so I don't see washed colors.
Tried with an ambient light to support the dark areas, but it makes my glass white.
Also tried with Shading Oversampling, it gets better, but still too high rendertimes.
Tried setting subsample to 50% and leave the denoise filter do the job. It's doing fine, but still about 6 times the exterior to render the scene.
Tried with diffuse depth to 2 to speed up rendertimes.
Tried leaving Russian Roulette to 0, to have less noise in dark areas, but not very noticeable.
Also tried tweaking low light threshold.

Roughness Noise Optimization is a mystery to me, don't find anything on the docs.

Wanted to deliver this project from Clarisse but had to switch back to Luxrender.

Thanks for your help.
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby vandam » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:49 pm

I would also like to know if there is any way to optimize interior scenes render times. I'm working on this interior right now and I'd like to render it in clarisse. I'm probably gonna do it anyway, just for the sake of learning and better understanding the software, but I'm afraid that after that I'm still gonna use max for interiors. Simple cube with a hole in it renders around 3.2 faster in vray using brute force, with light cache (I know - not a fair comparison since caching is not truly PBR) it's 9.2 faster! I haven't tested new denoising since I don't have nvidia gpu (never supported the company for the crap they pull off).

This took 565 seconds, almost 10 minutes to render in 640x360 (!) with pure diffuse material and an HDR on i7 6800k (10 active threads). To render in full HD it would take 9 times longer - that's 80 minutes! :o :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: How much of an improvement would we look at with denosing? is there any way to direct more samples inside without going crazy with render times? (in order to get somewhat clean direct lighting I had to use around 2048 IBL light samples and around 700 diffuse samples for the material). Like I said - I'm fine with doing one personal STILL project and render it overnight (I hope that overnight would do :D) but for commercial stuff/ animation (interior wise) it's just too slow (even though more accurate and better looking out of the box).

Image
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby Asticles » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:06 pm

Agree totally.
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby Preludian » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:35 am

Actually 100% relevant for me, too. Only done exterior renderings right now, but fast interiors with much stuff inside and wonderful lighting is what I also bought Clarisse for, so any tips&tutorials would be very welcomed :)

My first guess (without checking if possible) is that the samples are wasted on the outside of the model and a light portal could force and funnel the light through the windows. At least that's how it's done with Octane :)
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby bjoern » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:26 pm

if you have a few windows you could just put Arealights with a texture on it where the windows are (its a compromise). But of course depending of the type of building/windows and amount, at some point this won't be a manageable solution.
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby Asticles » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:59 pm

Specially when you're viewing also the exterior from inside the building.
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby Preludian » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:14 am

Have a look here: https://www.clarissewiki.com/3.6/portal.html
That should do the trick.
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby bjoern » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:04 pm

Preludian wrote:Have a look here: https://www.clarissewiki.com/3.6/portal.html
That should do the trick.


that is a legacy light. wont work with the new engine
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby vandam » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:52 pm

I was thinking of using area lights but the problem with them is that you cannot control how soft or hard they are. Vray has a 'directionality' parameter, Arnold has 'spread', other engines have similar concepts. By default, in Clarisse, area light is quite soft but if you put a texture as colour it can become more direct than one would like and it can mess everything up. And, as bjoern mentioned, having many lights and controling their visibility and shading groups could become unnecessary nightmare. I would much rather have a physical light setup and light portals or something similar to drop them render times down.
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby xilofoton » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:04 am

Hi,

Well, Clarisse is basically designed for VFX, using it for archviz isn't straightforward and feature rich as the dedicated solutions (ie Ocean https://www.eclat-digital.com)
Here are some quick ideas which might help you:
- Use the new Denoiser! I think this is the only part of Clarisse which has close relation to archviz. nVidia used mainly design visualization and archviz scenes to train the Optix Denoiser. Maybe this is the reason why is it less effective with organic scenes an much better for artificial objects.
If you use the albedo and word normal inputs for archviz, with very low samples you can get relatively good results for lookdev quickly, here is an example:
Image
https://twitter.com/SamAssadian/status/ ... 8771565568

Another advantage using low sampling+Denoise is that you can use high number for diffuse bounces which is I belive the most important thing for proper and nice archviz.
Video tutorials are there for the Denoiser as well.

Additionally I recommend to use it with not just 1*1 box filter but also with Random sampling mode (and try the others) rather than the default Blue Noise. Im fan of the latter but nVidia trained the Denoiser (mostly or fully?) with raytracers without blue noise but random sampling.

- Bake the illumination: https://www.clarissewiki.com/3.6/using_ ... cript.html

(I tried the Denoiser on baked textures, but wasn't so good as I expected. However it was just a quick test, later I plan to develop kind of a "lighting->bake diffuse lighting->denoise texture->render diffuse AOV + lighting->render specular AOV->denoise" pipeline)

- Try to use the Denoiser on Luxrender renders. It works with Mantra renders as well. While Luxrender is spectral, it can be better for archviz...
VFX & Cinematic Scientific Visualization Artist, Clarisse Specialist
https://artstation.com/scivfx
https://scivfx.wordpress.com/
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