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Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby Asticles » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:12 pm

First of all, thanks for the tests you have done.
Have to try this Russian Roulette trick for transparent surfaces. Also this AA sample to 1 and oversampling to 50%.
Subsample quality to 50 seems to help a lot Optix denoiser. Thanks for that.

I have seen that the light from outside barely plays a leading role, whereas in the infoarchitecture the external light is usually the one that illuminates the interior, hence the problem. In your case it seems that the light panels are the ones that give the most light. Increasing the ease of rendering.

I am very happy that the portals are going to be implemented again. Which is a great help. And IES! Thank you!

In spite of everything I am seeing that other render engines do not use the portals in favor of a better guide of the samples, like Corona or Thea render, since the portals can cause a strange illumination if at the same time you can see the inside and the outside of the scene. Would it be better to consider this option?

https://corona-renderer.com/blog/research-corner-progressive-importance-sampling/
Thea render has something called field mapping.

I'm waithing for your thoughts about classroom scene.
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby xilofoton » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:36 pm

There will be a presentation soon @FMX on this afternoon with the "The Future of Clarisse" title. I hope that we can read the news here or watch it soon...

It depends on the client but what if you show them a grainy version with proper lens fx and grading? The renders without Optix are actually more photorealistic. With these lighting conditions you newer get much better noise performance in the darker areas in photography. I'm talking about raw photos, not the super-digested noise filtered ones.

In Clarisse if you use Blue Noise with Blackmann-Harris and 4-5 px wide filtering (for 4k+ images), you can get very nice photographic like grain structure. Earlier Yann told me that Clarisse has a special random / Monte Carlo sampling generator to match the film grain.

So it depends on the client and the needs but you can say: "I use high-end VFX tools&methods, my images are cinematic and not the typical super flat, sterile and boring visualizations..." ;)

An inspiring example came in my mind which made in Clarisse and architectual, the Exodus film, great environments by DNEG:
http://www.dneg.com/show/exodus-gods-and-kings/
http://www.artofvfx.com/exodus-gods-and ... -negative/

(V-ray has similar feature to this Corona stuff)
VFX & Cinematic Scientific Visualization Artist, Clarisse Specialist
https://artstation.com/scivfx
https://scivfx.wordpress.com/
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby esmith » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:38 pm

I'm rendering a test with just the environment light. The goal of my test was just to see some rough render times in an interior scene. I think it's obvious that you can render interiors in Clarisse iFX using an IBL, which was the question at he genesis of this thread.

How you go about lighting that scene is entirely up to you. When we get portals you can use those, or you can just put an IBL as I have done. It's up to you. Just because ArchVis workflows generally just throw an IBL in the scene and your done, doesn't mean that's the only, or even the best way to do your lighting. But I do respect workflows and we should be as good as other comparable software in this regard and with Portals I believe we will be.

So to the question, can Clarisse iFX produce photo real interior scenes. The answer is yes.

To the question, can Clarisse iFX produce photo real interior scenes using the same exact methods and workflows as I've used before. The answer is currently no, and in the near future yes.

To the question, can Clarisse produce photo real interior scenes in the fastest render times in the industry. The answer is I don't know.

But just like in VFX, what iFX brings you is ultra speed up to the time of hitting "render" and going to bed. You will still pick your IBL angle, adjust your shaders in maximum real time. Getting to that first Optix 1 sample test render quicker than in any other software. And I have a feeling, potentially showing clients sun angle changes in this almost real time environment and being able to light and shade your entire scene in an almost real time 3d view must be a tremendous time saver. Not to mention, putting lots of geometry outside of your windows.

18 minute 5 Sample Optix render, using only the IBL
TestRender_5smp_Optix_EnvOnly_1073sec.jpg
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby Preludian » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:17 am

Hi,

just a quick info about the conversion of the Classroom-Scene. I'm nearly finished, but 6AM is soon, so I have to get some sleep. I'll package it tomorrow with all what belongs to it. Mainly missing are the lights as Blender has a different rotation and location than Clarisse. Rotation bugs me still :) But no matter the status of the lights I will package it all up so you can already play/check and adjust it.
Btw, is it possible to have relative paths instead of absolute?

Your image gets better and better but it doesn't look as if much lighting is coming through the bright window. And no, IBL is just one part of the lighting, for the overall atmosphere, of course one needs more hand laid lights to correctly light the scene. What you say about the real time update is very true, one reason more to also add date/time/location positioning of the sun :)
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby Preludian » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:36 pm

I think it's finished, had some issues with the venetian blinds, as I forgot to activate the python script since it's procedural.
I set up the materials as shading layers, the textures are connected, some lights are set, only the paths are still absolute and not relative, so they have to be reset.

Good luck&fun with the scene :) Ah, yes, the blender file is also inside for referencing and in the render folder are some renderings. It took me 2h+ for HD res. That's much...

Ah yes, here is a link to a video from the scene rendered by the creator himself, Christophe SEUX, https://vimeo.com/124300114

So here is the link to the converted scene, I hope it works, will be back late tonight should there be any questions.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zhzmmjzcekqlhr8/classroom2Clarisse.zip?dl=0

And this is the goal :)
Classroom_Render_with_VBs.jpg
Blender Render
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby esmith » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:35 pm

Awesome, thanks for setting that all up, I'll take a look at it when I get a chance. This wont be quick but over time I'll update this thread with some progress. I have a tour to prepare for in 2 weeks but I see no reason I can't produce this result without many problems. *stretches hands out*
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby Preludian » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:27 pm

Fantastic! Awaiting the progress with utter impatience. :) I think this could be a really awesome reference for the possibilities of Clarisse. Also because many other render engines have had their try on rendering this scene. And of course this a truly awesome learning project for everyone interested in interior renderings.

Btw, did you mean 'without many problems' or 'without any problems'? :)
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby vandam » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:10 pm

I was at the FMX and saw everything you guys showed. I was especially glad when during "the future of Clarisse" Sam mentioned that you plan to introduce new portal lights. We can expect x4 improvement when it comes to render times. I was extremely happy to hear that. Stay tuned ya´ll :D great things incomming
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby isoyann » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:51 pm

Hi,

Yes,portals for PBR are coming.. but also other very great PBR improvements (especially useful for big night city scenes for example;) ) This will greatly enhance the render time!

Thanks!

Yann
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Re: Settings to render interiors with the new PBR system

Unread postby Preludian » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:30 pm

What also would be really cool and a huge timesaver, shaded bevels, like this one new in Blender (https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/render/cycles/nodes/types/input/bevel.html).
I know this slows down rendering a bit, but this would allow having small bevels without having to have them all as geometry.
A semi-working solution was already posted here, if you could integrate and optimize it this would be cool :)

So the ArchViz-List goes like this:

1. Portal Lights
2. IES Lights
3. Sun with Date/Time/Location including animation
4. Bevel Shader (as node)

Yeah, these would be perfect additions for ArchViz :)
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