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Very weird behavior on starting Clarisse after update,ideas?

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Re: Very weird behavior on starting Clarisse after update,id

Unread postby sam » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:55 pm

Have you tried, downgrading drivers?
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Re: Very weird behavior on starting Clarisse after update,id

Unread postby atnreg » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:36 pm

Not at this time but I was using the CRD drivers earlier and the problem occurred with that so I updated to latest game ready drivers but it did not help.

But to put together what I have found/done so far (just to clarify the long thread :)):
There are two problems:
1. the Clarisse slow start
-can happen at any time, right after reboot/hibernate or just restarting Clarisse, does not occur every time though
-Clarisse usually takes 3 times about 2 minutes to start, after that it starts normally
-when started by slow start, Clarisse window closes immediately but the process can take even 30 s. to terminate (in task manager)
-when starting normally, Clarisse also closes normally i.e. even the process terminates almost immediately
-the slow start applies to license manager as well, the process shows in task manager but the UI appears after 2 min
-on slow start session, opening a file by file selector (I use system dialog) the dialog can take the same 2 min :o
-no custom startup scripts or scenes are in use, just plain default Clarisse

2. the blue screen system crash
-happens if I use GPU-features (tested with Optix Denoiser) and then try to change the resolution of the Image when it is showing in Image View
-if Image is not active/visible at that moment, it works normally but bluescreen occurs when I switch to Image View or very soon after that
-when I add the Optix Denoiser filter, the render progress bar goes to 0% and stays there, Clarisse continues to work otherwise
-then when I change the resolution (or do some significant change in the rendered area like add objects), there is few seconds delay and Clarisse stops (or maybe whole system) for a second, then the bluescreen appears
-the bluescreen says VIDEO_TDR_FAILURE (nvlddmkm.sys)
I found this description for that:
"TDR is the Timeout, Detection, and Recovery component in Windows. What happens is the Graphics Display driver for the installed graphics card stops responding. When this happens, windows will stop and restart the driver to fix the problem.

The most common reason for this issue is that the graphics device is being overloaded or used beyond its capabilities."
But basic Clarisse use without any object in a scene cannot overload anything, right? :)

What I have tried so far:
-reinstall graphics drivers (clean install)
-use different graphics card (same mode but different manufacturer)
-avoid using E drive (had no effect except randomly so it was not the reason)
-checked all drives for errors with chkdsk (not the full check but normal commandline chkdsk did not find any problems and avoiding E drive changed nothing so I don't think it is drive problem)

What I will try next (starting tomorrow):
-check if the bluescreen occurs when Clarisse has started normally (after 3 slow starts), this of course does not solve anything but might give some clue
-disable network completely (that should not affect but this is so weird thing that I want to try anything)
-remove Clarisse completely (with Revo Unistaller) and remove all traces of it in appdata as well (if Revo does not) and install it completely clean
-start Windows in safe mode and try then
-check the BIOS settings, I have not changed anything lately but just in case
-do complete uninstall of graphics drivers (not just clean install option in installer) with NVDIA uninstaller tool (I just found that info, need to check if it is still valid for current drivers or if it is old stuff)

Any other ideas to try? :)
Antti
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990wx (32c/64t),64GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX 1080ti,Win10
Clarisse 4.0SP7,Houdini,Blender2.83,Fusion360,Onyx,ZBrush,SubstPnt...
Started: Clarisse 2016/10 (Py 2017/01), Python 2016/11
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Re: Very weird behavior on starting Clarisse after update,id

Unread postby mdkai » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:37 am

For the blue screen issue
There is a TDR max timeout value in the registry and some other gpu dependent apps like substance painter recommend to increasing the value for allowing Windows to accept a longer delaytime.

Here is a step by step explanation

https://docs.substance3d.com/spdoc/gpu- ... 45489.html

Cheers
Kai
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Re: Very weird behavior on starting Clarisse after update,id

Unread postby atnreg » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:40 am

mdkai wrote:For the blue screen issue
There is a TDR max timeout value in the registry and some other gpu dependent apps like substance painter recommend to increasing the value for allowing Windows to accept a longer delaytime.

Here is a step by step explanation

https://docs.substance3d.com/spdoc/gpu- ... 45489.html

Cheers
Kai


I had those adjusted as I also have Substance Painter but as those were both 60 and the mystic delay is 120, I changed those both to 120, let's see if the mystic delay changes :D
Rebooting...testing...no change, still 2 min delay on Clarisse start and still bluescreen :(

Thanks anyway for trying :)
Antti
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990wx (32c/64t),64GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX 1080ti,Win10
Clarisse 4.0SP7,Houdini,Blender2.83,Fusion360,Onyx,ZBrush,SubstPnt...
Started: Clarisse 2016/10 (Py 2017/01), Python 2016/11
No business, just fun :)
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Re: Very weird behavior on starting Clarisse after update,id

Unread postby sam » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:50 am

There's clearly something weird going on with the drivers. Remember that Clarisse is one of the rare apps built on the latest Optix/RTX. I would suggest you to uninstall cleanly the drivers and reinstall the one I suggested 469.17
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Re: Very weird behavior on starting Clarisse after update,id

Unread postby atnreg » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:14 pm

sam wrote:There's clearly something weird going on with the drivers. Remember that Clarisse is one of the rare apps built on the latest Optix/RTX. I would suggest you to uninstall cleanly the drivers and reinstall the one I suggested 469.17


469.17? :o
The latest NVIDIA offers is 430.86 :o
Did you mean 419.17? That one is on the older drivers list :)
In this thread you have not mentioned any specific driver version (just downgrade) so I cannot check what you meant ;)

I have done huge process of trying different things and I'm writing results in another post (still some things left to try, will post it soon) but I also did do full uninstall with DDU (guru3d tool) and then installed Geforce Experience and selected Studio Drivers but still no change, both slow start and bluescreen occurs :(

But I am very willing to try some specific driver, just please confirm the version and how to get it if other than 419.17 :)

And thank you very much for replying on Sunday!
Antti
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990wx (32c/64t),64GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX 1080ti,Win10
Clarisse 4.0SP7,Houdini,Blender2.83,Fusion360,Onyx,ZBrush,SubstPnt...
Started: Clarisse 2016/10 (Py 2017/01), Python 2016/11
No business, just fun :)
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Re: Very weird behavior on starting Clarisse after update,id

Unread postby sam » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:23 pm

Yes I meant 419.17. The slow launch and blue screen on nv makes me feel there's a initialization problem with optix/rtx/gl
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Re: Very weird behavior on starting Clarisse after update,id

Unread postby atnreg » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:35 pm

sam wrote:Yes I meant 419.17. The slow launch and blue screen on nv makes me feel there's a initialization problem with optix/rtx/gl


Ok thank you, did the DDU again and now it is installing Geforce Experience and the 419.17, all default options, we'll see soon...
Same result :(
Clarisse starts fast when I added the whole program files\isotropix folder tree on virus protection exclude list but the bluescreen continues like before. But that is strange as my local friend has same virus protection and very close to same system setup as well (though different graphics card, GTX 980) but he has no problems on Clarisse start.

I will now try to remove every trace of Clarisse with Revo Uninstaller and then install it again, let's hope that will help...
Antti
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990wx (32c/64t),64GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX 1080ti,Win10
Clarisse 4.0SP7,Houdini,Blender2.83,Fusion360,Onyx,ZBrush,SubstPnt...
Started: Clarisse 2016/10 (Py 2017/01), Python 2016/11
No business, just fun :)
atnreg
 
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Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Very weird behavior on starting Clarisse after update,id

Unread postby atnreg » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:02 pm

(edit: added details and clarified descriptions)
Actually, before uninstalling all Clarisse versions I decided to try older versions (I had tried the older versions earlier but as I thought the slow start was in connection with bluescreen problem, I did not try more when I noticed the slow start).
3.6 SP7,SP8b, 4.0b, 4.0 SP1 WORK!
4.0 SP2 and 4.0SP2b do the bluescreen! And as each version installs into its own folder, I don't think there is anything wrong with the installation and now I have clean config files and no startup script/scene.

So there is something wrong in SP2 to say it lamely, at least for GTX 1080ti ;)

The slow start is indeed fixed by excluding Isotropix folder tree from virus protection, that also applies to older versions.
So I will downgrade Clarisse to 4.0 SP1 until you fix the problem, hopefully soon ;)

I checked the release notes and in SP2 was introduced the 3D View GPU support, maybe the problem is in that (I don't use it so it cannot be the cause directly but maybe there is something different now with the initialization of GPU).
Also this thread is now exactly one month old but SP2 was release in April so it was not direct problem with that version but some other change (Windows update?) that now causes that. I have now tried many times, with reboot, hibernate and just restart Clarisse, it is obvious that the problem starts with 4.0 SP2.
I also will not post the extensive list of things I tried earlier as they did not help :)

Conclusion:
So it seems that finally both these problems are 'fixed' or at least I found workaround for bluescreen - SP1. Slow start was clearly caused by virus protection as after slow start I turned protection off, fast start, then turned on, slow start so there was no doubt and now that Isotropix folders are excluded, everything works.

Thank you all who tried to find solutions with me :)
Antti
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990wx (32c/64t),64GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX 1080ti,Win10
Clarisse 4.0SP7,Houdini,Blender2.83,Fusion360,Onyx,ZBrush,SubstPnt...
Started: Clarisse 2016/10 (Py 2017/01), Python 2016/11
No business, just fun :)
atnreg
 
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Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Very weird behavior on starting Clarisse after update,id

Unread postby atnreg » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:01 pm

Actually, weirdness continues :o
I installed latest 430.86 STUDIO driver and no bluescreen anymore even with SP2b but Optix does not work :o
When I enable it in SP2b, the render goes fine until the end where Optix kicks in and the whole render turns to checkerboard (=nothing) :o
In SP1 that works fine.

I started everything from scratch so if there are any preferences that need to be changed to make Optix work in SP2b (except Box 1x1), please let me know. I tried to check through the preferences but could not find anything related to this.

Any ideas?
Antti
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990wx (32c/64t),64GB RAM,NVIDIA GTX 1080ti,Win10
Clarisse 4.0SP7,Houdini,Blender2.83,Fusion360,Onyx,ZBrush,SubstPnt...
Started: Clarisse 2016/10 (Py 2017/01), Python 2016/11
No business, just fun :)
atnreg
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:20 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland

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