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Only 3 types of noise?

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Only 3 types of noise?

Unread postby Karen_Jonhson » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:42 pm

I must be missing something here, I'm sure I'm wrong if I say there are only 3 types of noise (cellular, fractal, and Perlin) in Clarisse.
So I was about to make some material blending, using noises as weight and I found under Textures>Procedural only 3 noise types, I've tried hard to adapt these to the need but I'm left with too few options.
Do I have to go back to Houdini, use the plethora of choices in noises, bake to a map, export, then import into Clarisse, then set the texture parameters, then use as noise? and do this for every single geometry because every geometry has a different scale? really?
No, again I'm sure the noises are somewhere, I just need to find them, because with only these 3, I can't do proper material blending.
Where are the other noises?
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Re: Only 3 types of noise?

Unread postby ayanik » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:04 pm

Which ones do you need?

You can find some here:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3801

Also keep in mind you can warp noises with other noises using the UV Translate, Rotation, Scale slots. You can build some complex noises with this method. Regarding scale you can add Shading Variables on your objects and read this parameter in your material network to drive the uv scale for example. You can also set the noise projection object space to World if you want everything to be identical in size, but that will cause texture swimming with moving objects. Best is if you leave each object scale to 1 and set the projection space to Object.
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Re: Only 3 types of noise?

Unread postby dboude » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:56 pm

Hi,

Yes, there are only 3 noises. But as ayanik said you can achieve more complex noises by merging them, control the UVs by other noise etc etc... It requires some work and some imagination but you can achieve really complex setup. For example, those renders were done in a scene made in Clarisse without any external dependencies. No map files, no meshes. Just noises and primitives.

SHOT01.jpg


SHOT02.jpg


SHOT03.jpg


Here is the file if you have any doubt about what I am saying.
Desert_D.project
(337.6 KiB) Downloaded 97 times


Cheers ;)
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Re: Only 3 types of noise?

Unread postby mdkai » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:18 pm

Aside you can use triplanar and multiple mixes to adjust shader blending easily. Also it does not hurt to have a baked out library of say substance noise nodes always loaded as a reference material lib.
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Re: Only 3 types of noise?

Unread postby Karen_Jonhson » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:20 pm

I've spent the whole day with the 3 Clarisse noises and with the OSL noise collection. Please do take this as a blunt but constructive criticism:

- the 3 noises in Clarisse
When I think of the 3 Clarisse noises, only one word comes to my mind: poverty. It's so limited it's not even considered something. Yes I can mix them, but do you see the difference between mixing 3 noises and mixing more than 20 proper noises (Houdini).
Clarisse noises are quite, how do I say that, it feels like unfinished work. 2 have contrast, 1 doesn't. So we're down to 2. Blending material for me is blending A with B using over. Which means it's either A or B, and in the very very very narrow borders (0.01 %) there is a blending (grey). Without contrast, the noise is utterly useless because it leaves massive areas with grey values that kill realism.
Thank you for the renders above, that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid, a dull CG looking ground. I'm trying to mix more than 10 materials in a very small area (max 10 meters), to make sure the render is hard to distinguish from a photo (photorealism).

- OSL noise collection:
Thank you very much, quite helpful but not supported I guess, because I've tested heavily some of these and some are really broken but I can't ask questions about them because they are not supported, one is so badly broken that you can see a gap in the render. Some are great, and I will definitely use them. The point is: why is it coming from a nice volunteering person, if shading and scattering is the bread and butter of Clarisse?

What's stopping Isotropix from having a proper internal collection of noises? is it too complicated?
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Re: Only 3 types of noise?

Unread postby mdkai » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:19 am

Feel free to add your +1 here in my request:
https://www.isotropix.com/user/feature/180
Other do have the same need but obviously the priority for such feature is lower than others it seems.
So for now we have to use other options in tandem with what we have.

Cheers
Kai
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Re: Only 3 types of noise?

Unread postby dboude » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:32 am

Yes, priorities are shifted by the demand of our clients. This one has a lower one than the others as other solutions exist. It will be made one day ;)

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Re: Only 3 types of noise?

Unread postby ambassador1 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:05 am

While I agree with the lack of noise choices, and have for years, for speed purposes...without seeing what you are trying to make, e.g. reference as its photo real, I think the issue is lack of knowledge of the current tools.

Some things are not super obvious, you can put negative values in the contrast to get smoother transitions, along with making sure normalize is off in some cases. In addition, for even more control you can remap the noise value through a gradient for more control. As mentioned, you can distort the noises, using a variety of inputs, getting interesting effects like wave displacements off objects in scene.

Yes, more noises would be nice, if you are trying to make a complex photo real ground with just procedural noises and no map inputs or scatters, you are just not taking advantage of the package at that point and setting self limitations perhaps. Again, show examples of what you are after and we can give better tips. Personally, if you are going for photoreal in Clarisse, with a time constraint, just source great maps, use triplanars, and only mix with the noises to get some breakup.

I still think getting a photo real ground with the noises is totally possible, but there are better ways to get there.

Remember a few things too, you said you "spent a day", try to think on how long it took you to get familiar with just three houdini noise functions, let along be a master. We all know you can learn things in a day, but its very different from having in depth knowlege or mastering them. "Proper'' as you say, also in 3d workflow and function almost never are the same package to package...definitely not saying the clarisse options and noise features available are perfect, but you should refine what you mean by proper so users here can try to point you in a direction to get an effect similar to said missing feature.

Put a feature request in for more noises, I would be happy to upvote it...I think I may have requested more years ago myself :lol:, because I was not super happy about the limited noise functions also, but have adapted like with any package.
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Re: Only 3 types of noise?

Unread postby esmith » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:06 am

Always remember, the 3 noises did not limit many films to win best VFX awards. So if you are having trouble producing a beautiful image, remember that many many many have been made before. So look inward young artist, for with the exact same tool as you have, more has been produced than you could EVER imagine!

And have fun, have some damn fun!
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