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standartshader - adopting the Arnold 5 shader layout

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standartshader - adopting the Arnold 5 shader layout

Unread postby bjoern » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:54 am

I love the fact that I can use Clarrise a bit in tandem with Maya and arnold. In the sense that the shaders are the same. Or have been the same.
I used extensively Alshaders and the new standard surface of Arnold 5. And I find the new shader in A5 allot better. It would be super great if Clarrise
would mimic these parameters (with essentially the same tech from Alshaders under the hood). For a few reasons.
- The Metalness parameter is very convenient and Artist friendly (my favorite part)
- Other apps like substance or mari etc... will add the A5 shader to there list. And if Clarrise is mimicking that shader, mixed pipeline (Maya+A5+Clarrise) are easier to handle :)
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Re: standartshader - adopting the Arnold 5 shader layout

Unread postby isoyann » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:21 pm

Hi,

The purpose of the metalness concept is to get a very good compromise between simplicity and power: with a very limited number of attributes, you can approximate almost all materials.

Alshader aim a different goal: because the metalness approach, while very effective in real time and animated features (with stylized look) is often a bit limited for vfx work, it was designed using a layered approach, more flexible, more complex, but still intuitive for artists.

Mixing the two in the same shader add lot of confusion and complexity.. and pollute what was a very good multipurpose uber shader. The disney approach (pbr with metalness) is very good, but to get the most of this, it is best to have it as a separate shader.. and if you want more options, go to the original alshader layered approach.

Another issue is it is not opensource anymore.. while Alshader was a good move toward standardization, it is now a black box.
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Re: standartshader - adopting the Arnold 5 shader layout

Unread postby bjoern » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:13 pm

I don't think that the Metallness parameter is limiting. Also Arnold is mostly targeting photo-realism. Houdini as well adopted 1to1 the PixarDisney shader as there main ubershader. I can't see how the argument in regards to "real time and animated features" apply's here.
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Re: standartshader - adopting the Arnold 5 shader layout

Unread postby jensonite » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:40 am

I couldn't agree more. I doubt Solid Angle would implement a shader as the new standard if it wasn't capable of producing photo-real results. It is in fact heavily inspired by the alSurface shader except that it actually streamlines some of the workflow a bit more.
Also, if standardization is the issue, it doesn't get more standardized than PBR metal / roughness imho.
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